anybody got a throw away account that they will sacrafice to try this report bot function that is coming out soon, would be interesting what it came up with while using questor 12h/day

Here's what I see happening, initially CCP will detect bots by behavior. It's probably how they caught the RoidRipper/H-Bot users. Since neither of those two actually change anything within EVE.

After most of them are caught, I see CCP going for the 'injectors'.

You have two flavors, you have the Python injectors (Eran bot, spelling) and you have the 'process' injectors (Questor and ISXEVE). Both are easy to stop but I see the python injectors easier to stop then Questor / ISXEVE. For the Python Injectors you could easily just remove the PyRun_ functions completely, with no way of them to actually inject Python, it'll end pretty damn fast for them.

To disable Questor / ISXEVE in the same way would mean that they'd have to remove the other python functions as well, and those are most likely used by their interal C/C++ functions as well. So that's not really possible. A 'quick' solution would be to mask those functions by using an obfuscator, but that wouldn't stop ISXEVE (it would stop me, because I'd be too bored to keep searching for the required functions).

Once you're done with the obfuscation path, you'd add checks to the Python functions to detect unauthorized usage. This step would have to be done after the obfuscation, otherwise it would be too easy to crack.

Possible ways of detecting unauthorized usage would be to send the call-stack to the server (for both the c/c++ functions as for the python functions!), this was done by the Blizzard-Warden and while not impossible, very hard to circumvent. The way to circumvent this would be by modifying the code, however if you then have a separate thread/function/whatever to check for code modifications then it suddenly becomes a factor 10 harder.

Once your done with that, here's another simple step. Obfuscate your Python code already, but not in the traditional way. Randomize your byte code! Yes, you have the source for both the Python compiles as you do for the Python runtime. Every patch you change this bytecode and RE'ing the python code has become near impossible.

After that you've pretty much stopped ISXEVE and Questor or made their life very hard.

And CCP, at least give me some credit if you decide to implement some of my idea's ;) Even if it's just by a private email which you can easily deny exists. (and yes I know your most likely reading this!)

Who knows wht will happen.
The fact is, at the moment Questor or Isxeve dissapear three of my four accounts will go insta-deleted. They exist to pay expensive toys for the main.

Evehunter

I'm lost... At first Da_Teach ignores every advice which would have helped to keep Questor out of harm, or at least to prolong its life. I don't question it, because I think DT it just too busy rl to implement these features. Now, he just helps CCP to hasten destruction of his creation. Da_Teach, just tell us: WHY??


Which is not necessarily true either. Look, Amadeus (ISXEve creator) explicitly says:


which basically means - no obligations, at all, even though it's pretty much paid. And people actually pay! I wonder what does make Da_Teach think that it will be forced to put a lot more effort into his bot once it becomes private and paid...

"Private" as in "available to fixed limited number of users", rather than "used by author only".

Because he wants a job doing this! =D But seriously in the CCP Security presentation they were all like "blah blah it's hard to find the right kind of people to do this! That's why it's taken so long." Meanwhile DT is here saying "hey hire me idiots this is what I do!."

Eve is not fun for DT. Botting Eve is fun for him. He has already said on IRC that he is pushing his bot army "just to see how long it takes CCP to ban him". Honestly you are all foolish to be using the released version of Questor (more specifically DirectEve.DLL) if you care about being banned.

I'm using my own version of Questor, and I've put A LOT of effort into it so far, like a month of coding 10 hours per day. But yes, I use directeve.dll - just because I've got no choice. Also, it's not like I care so much about bans that I stop playing Eve after banwave - but it takes time and money to train new chars up. So, if banwaves come more often that, say, 3-4 months - it becomes pretty much pointless to bot any further. Though, in case CCP do really use this "three strikes rule" - I'm all in for it! The following is for CCP (if they really read this forum):

It's ok, warn every my account every month, I'll register fresh accounts and pay even more to transfer my chars, just to earn the right to bot for another month. This way we both get profit: I get it from RMT, you get 3x payment compared to a common player (new acc + transfer vs just monthly payment). OTOH, if you warn me more often or even instaban, it might just become unprofitable to bot any further (which results in no more payments from me).

Finally, I honestly don't understand people who ruin useful things instead of selling them... If you (Edgar) are right, and DT does really think like that (how do you know it, btw? are you his friend?), then I don't get the point of having this forum and even supporting Questor as it is. What is the reason to support a product which is already condemned by its creator?

If you've spent any time in the #isxeve channel you would have seen his comments too. His opinions may have changed in the last few months but I doubt it. Also, I'm pretty sure he put this forum up for you guys could support each other so he didn't have to support you. :)

First, I've never said "drake". Second, you're prolly going to be surprised, but BCs can kill red crosses as well - making less isk/hour than golems, indeed, but still making it. Third and main, even battlecruisers can do wonders when you've got a farm of them. Well maybe not wonders, but just enough for me. And I smell a snob somewhere...

Edited by user Tuesday, March 29, 2011 5:09:09 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified