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Da_Teach  
#1 Posted : Wednesday, January 25, 2012 1:40:30 PM(UTC)
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According to this site:
http://gamepolitics.com/...cape-bot-software-makers

Jagex won a lawsuit against a Runescape bot maker. However the site does not mention why the judge ruled in favor of Jagex, nor does it mention why damages have to be payed.

From the info that I could find it seems this is yet another misuse of the DMCA.

Does anyone have any additional info?
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Edgar  
#2 Posted : Wednesday, January 25, 2012 8:29:26 PM(UTC)
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I don't know anything about the case you mentioned but if you think DCMA has been abused just wait. Congress is hell bent on passing "anti-piracy" laws now. SOPA/PIPA aren't dead... Now we have a new bill called OPEN that is just another attempt to "lock down" the internet opening a path for extreme fraud and abuse.
Da_Teach  
#3 Posted : Thursday, January 26, 2012 9:39:49 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Edgar Go to Quoted Post
I don't know anything about the case you mentioned but if you think DCMA has been abused just wait. Congress is hell bent on passing "anti-piracy" laws now. SOPA/PIPA aren't dead... Now we have a new bill called OPEN that is just another attempt to "lock down" the internet opening a path for extreme fraud and abuse.


Well I'm interested in this case since it directly relates to 'things I do' (hack games), granted I do not charge money for any of my hacks and I would actually help companies secure themselves against them (if they asked).

But its interesting since the DMCA was initially not created for this, but it does seem to me that DMCA gets used (and abused) for all sorts of things.
synthetic  
#4 Posted : Thursday, February 2, 2012 10:13:48 PM(UTC)
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I believe, what happened was , the dev's ran out of money to fight the case with, and signed an agreement to get out of it lightly .
You can see the demands made by Jagex here : http://www.autofighter.org/
And the apology letter the devs put out also
Ganondorf  
#5 Posted : Friday, February 3, 2012 5:18:10 AM(UTC)
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Nope there was a court order already, so they were losing the case, and settled. They were selling fully functional bots, some information about their customers leaked from their website (which wasn't not only not secure, but messed up), so Jagex went ahead having solid proof of sales, and won the legal battle.
civan2  
#6 Posted : Friday, February 3, 2012 9:53:52 PM(UTC)
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Just goes on to show that if you treat bot making as a legit business with yourself as a company director you either have balls of steel and a thick wallet or you are being stupid. You are just asking for a harrasment lawsiut even if the claim has no legal merit.

Edited by user Friday, February 3, 2012 9:55:28 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Ganondorf  
#7 Posted : Friday, February 3, 2012 10:59:25 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: c-ivan Go to Quoted Post
Just goes on to show that if you treat bot making as a legit business with yourself as a company director you either have balls of steel and a thick wallet or you are being stupid. You are just asking for a harrasment lawsiut even if the claim has no legal merit.


It's fine if you're outside the US and UK and inside them it's also fine if you don't sell bots. Everything else is pretty much legal.
Gray  
#8 Posted : Saturday, February 4, 2012 12:09:22 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: c-ivan Go to Quoted Post
Just goes on to show that if you treat bot making as a legit business with yourself as a company director you either have balls of steel and a thick wallet or you are being stupid. You are just asking for a harrasment lawsiut even if the claim has no legal merit.

Lol wut? Tongue You don't HAVE to have balls of steel (which doesn't hurt, however) - you just have to live in Russia, Ukraine, China or etc third world countries. If I was a bot seller, I'd really really want to see some Jagex, CCP, Blizzard or whatever lawyers to come here, start a lawsuit against me, and win at least something. Or rather, at least find me as a real person LOL I mean, our providers would just chuckle at anyone asking for personal data of their customers without having a warrant from prosecutor's office... and they are going to have real hard time telling our legalists fairytales about some "computer game pirate".
Ganondorf  
#9 Posted : Saturday, February 4, 2012 4:17:18 AM(UTC)
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They could open a case in the US then use extradiction international laws to get you deported and thrown in jail. Pretty much every eula points to US courts in case anything happens. Not very realistic for now, since it hasn't happened, but if you like ruin a game company with your bot and make a game die, they would certainly do it.
civan2  
#10 Posted : Saturday, February 4, 2012 12:08:42 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Gray Go to Quoted Post

Lol wut? Tongue You don't HAVE to have balls of steel (which doesn't hurt, however) - you just have to live in Russia, Ukraine, China or etc third world countries. If I was a bot seller, I'd really really want to see some Jagex, CCP, Blizzard or whatever lawyers to come here, start a lawsuit against me, and win at least something. Or rather, at least find me as a real person LOL I mean, our providers would just chuckle at anyone asking for personal data of their customers without having a warrant from prosecutor's office... and they are going to have real hard time telling our legalists fairytales about some "computer game pirate".


You don't have enough business experience ;). I was reffering to the fact that in nearly every coutry information like that is a public record, therefore he wasn't exactly a hard person to find for Jagex.
Good at pvp. I enjoy pvz and pvt too.
Gray  
#11 Posted : Saturday, February 4, 2012 2:49:51 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Ganondorf Go to Quoted Post
They could open a case in the US then use extradiction international laws to get you deported and thrown in jail. Pretty much every eula points to US courts in case anything happens. Not very realistic for now, since it hasn't happened, but if you like ruin a game company with your bot and make a game die, they would certainly do it.

Get back to reality... Lots of russian businessmen (including REALLY rich ones like Berezovsky) have fled out of Russia, got sentenced here (in their absence), yet nobody feels like extradicting them back to Russia (UK included). Though, the opposite is true as well. I have yet to hear about ANY russian citizen who broke western/US law and got deported out of his motherland (!) because of this.

We live in different worlds, accept that. US rules, laws and verdicts are void here.

P.S. Also, a game which can be ruined to oblivion with just a single bot must be a really really shitty game. I personally won't even care to try to implement a bot for such a game...

Edited by user Saturday, February 4, 2012 2:53:02 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Ganondorf  
#12 Posted : Saturday, February 4, 2012 5:53:02 PM(UTC)
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Was just an extreme example. I would need to ask a lawyer to know if that case would be valid for extradiction.
civan2  
#13 Posted : Saturday, February 4, 2012 7:10:10 PM(UTC)
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In most cases not, extradition is a criminal law procedure. Which is quite different from civil law. Criminal charges would be quite hard to stick outside of US (DMCA, and even that is a stretch), any jurisdiction would most likely fall in your home country, and on top of that most countries have a dual criminality clause in their extradition laws, that is if they do extraditions at all (France, Russia, Israel and others don't).

Edited by user Saturday, February 4, 2012 7:18:25 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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interstellarsurfer  
#14 Posted : Saturday, February 4, 2012 8:57:02 PM(UTC)
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The civil, and even criminal, law here in the US is getting really out of control. I think they may have been damned by the fact that their company was a UK Limited corp, and they were the directors, being sued by an American corp. If they were a US corp(LLC), I think the lawsuit may not have gotten this far, or been so expensive to fight/lose/win/fold. At least then they could have walked away without being personally named in the suit and having a lien against their homes.

Anyways, this is another shitty precedent. At least the judge didn't seem to give an opinion on it.

Edited by user Saturday, February 4, 2012 8:59:14 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

civan2  
#15 Posted : Saturday, February 4, 2012 9:49:07 PM(UTC)
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You got it the wrong way round. Jagex is British. Unless you have houses/assets in US then they can pretty much piss on any judgements there from a great height. Of course they were foolhardy to assume they are going to win as well.
Good at pvp. I enjoy pvz and pvt too.
deXtoRious  
#16 Posted : Sunday, February 5, 2012 12:16:42 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Ganondorf Go to Quoted Post
Was just an extreme example. I would need to ask a lawyer to know if that case would be valid for extradiction.


In Gray's case it's completely irrelevant. The Russian constitution explicitly prohibits the extradition of its citizens (article 61), no exceptions and it doesn't matter what you do. There's also no DMCA equivalent with respect to the reverse engineering restrictions.
Ganondorf  
#17 Posted : Sunday, February 5, 2012 6:21:33 PM(UTC)
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Ok, going to rent an office in Moscow sometime this year then.
Gray  
#18 Posted : Sunday, February 5, 2012 6:36:28 PM(UTC)
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I'm afraid you'd have to apply for citizenship as well, to be protected by our laws ;) which, I'm afraid, won't be that easy unless you're native Russian or marry some of our girls.
Blafasl2  
#19 Posted : Sunday, February 5, 2012 6:46:08 PM(UTC)
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Anything can be bought in Russia with the right amount of money, or am i wrong?
"19:46 {Da_Teach} CyberTech I fuck goats while drinking the blood of new born babies"
Ganondorf  
#20 Posted : Sunday, February 5, 2012 6:58:02 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Gray Go to Quoted Post
I'm afraid you'd have to apply for citizenship as well, to be protected by our laws ;) which, I'm afraid, won't be that easy unless you're native Russian or marry some of our girls.


Gotta click on those russian dating site banners then.
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